Episode Transcript
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Welcome to Libau, the podcast of the Sabah Library at ACS athens. This is Dr. Cribolaro, your host. And today we have Dr. Yanis Kirkines, a teacher here at ACS.
Welcome Yanni.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Dr. Cavallaro, for this honor.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: That's our pleasure. Little background on Dr. Kirkines. He was born and raised in Athens.
He holds a Bachelor of Science in Chemistry at the national and Cappadocian University here in Athens. A Master of Science and doctorate in Physical Chemistry again from the National Cappadocian University of Athens.
He has CO author over 30 peer reviewed research papers. That's truly impressive. He has done research at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia and at the National Hellenic Research Foundation 20082011 and then from 2013 to 2015 he has work in a cosmetics company for as head of quality control. And he has been responsible for ISO accreditations, which is interesting because I used to work in ISO accreditations too. We are talking about 20 years ago. It's ISO 9000. Yeah.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: For managing, right? For organization of a company.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Yes, Organization, control and management.
He has presented research in scientific conferences across 12 countries. He has been an invited speaker at the Athens Science Festival and Piton Science in Greece. And he has been teaching chemistry since 2000 and joined ACS Athens in 2017.
One year before me, correct? I arrived in 2018. Yes, that's correct.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: I remember.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: I remember that there were two very seminal years.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: And as his personal interest, he has website design and development and weightlifting.
So very strong background in science. We are going to talk about that, but we are going to start with weightlifting.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Okay, so five minute introduction about science and then one sentence about weightlifting. Let's talk about weightlifting.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: Yes, let's talk.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: You know that in our second episode with Mr. Kramer and Stakikas, right? They were shocked when I mentioned that I did bodybuilding.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: I heard, I listened to it.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: You listened to it?
[00:02:50] Speaker B: I've listened to the podcast.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: You could hear the disbelief in the background. Dr. Kekrinas and I used to be gym buddies at the weight room here at the school. It was very fun actually. And everyone who lives knows how important it is to have somebody to train with as a sparing partner, even just for the sake of the conversation and reciprocal improvements.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Completely agree.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: That's good.
And the second thing that every bodybuilder knows is every day is leg day.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: So of course every day is leg day. Of course.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Talking about legs day.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: You have met some legends in the field. I was really impressed when you told me that you Met Ronnie Coleman and you interview him, you told him.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: That's true.
I've met him twice actually. 11 when I was in the US in Emory doing chemistry. But I took the time to visit the Arnold Sports Festival in Columbus, Ohio, which was really an amazing experience. I still remember that. I mean, huge experience. Did you know that the number of athletes in that event is larger than the number of athletes in the Olympic Games? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: Just for those who are not familiar with either Ronnie Coloman or Arnold's Festival. What are those?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: So what is the Arnold?
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Arnold Sports Festival is the largest sports sports event in the world. It has been going on since the 1980s initially as a bodybuilding competition and then it became a huge sporting event. There are several sports, such as, you know, martial art, power sports, weightlifting, powerlifting even. There's also art and chess contests. So it's a multi sport event.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: There's fitness.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Fitness of course is the main figure. Exactly, yeah, yeah. All these categories and this big exhibition which is amazing. I mean this, I see all these stars there and you know, if you follow the sport, everyone is there.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Everyone is there. Yes.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah, you can talk with them. It's really amazing, really amazing. You live with a bag full of supplement samples.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The goodie bag is very theme related.
I think that if I'm not mistaken, because now, for example, Mr. Olympia is not just bodybuilding per se, they also have fitness, they have figures, they have best, classic physique, etc. And I think that the Arnold event did it first and then Mr. Olympic Incorporated.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: Right, I'm correct.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: So that's how influential it has been.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Exactly. It used to be called Arnold's Classic. Arnold Classic, Arnold Classic. The bodybuilding competition. Then as you mentioned, it has developed into.
I mean there are several categories in the bodybuilding fitness events for men and women and now. But it's not the biggest. The biggest bodybuilding event is still Mr. Olympia, I mean the biggest title.
But yeah. In recent years the Olympia weekend as it's called it has been transformed into again an event, fitness and bodybuilding only, but still several categories giving the ability for every type of physique really to the opportunity. The majority of contestants are from the US still, but it's still, it's worldwide.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: And you know, that allowed better visibility, more engagement. It's because, let's face it, when we think of bodybuilders type as physics, it's something very unattainable for most people.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Besides all the controversies about using chemical.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Aids, let's go with that and maybe the stigma. Visual stigma.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: There is a visual stigma, obviously, so. But it's fair to say that a physique like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: So let's, let's just say who Ronnie Coleman is because we didn't say. Yeah, so Ronnie Coleman is an eight time Mr. Olympia, the only most probably to have won.
Lee Haney is another one. Ronnie Coleman is probably the most well known bodybuilder in recent years and he's been a phenomenal cleat. And the most amazing thing about that is he's highly respected and loved by practically everyone. I don't know if I've never seen any negative comment about Ronnie Coleman.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: You never hear anybody say anything bad about Ronnie. Everyone praises him for his commitment, for his kindness.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: For his willingness to help younger athletes to train, even now that he doesn't compete.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: And the cost to his health because if for people that follow, he has undergone a large number of surgeries. His spine and then he was in.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: A wheelchair for quite some time.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Exactly. And he's still, I mean from what I understand, he's not fully functioning walking, but still he, he uploads videos. Yeah, he's very positive about that. That's the amazing thing. Even now he's around 60 years old or something now he's so positive after going all these things and you know, you cannot not love him.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: I mean it's impossible not to.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: He has this very nice aura around that brings people to him. Yeah.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: So.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: And you, you met.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: So I met him twice. I met him twice. And actually one of. So one of them, it was in Columbus, Ohio in the Arnold Sports Festival. I think that was in 2008.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: And then in 2009, if I remember correctly, he came to Greece for some random event. And then at the time I was very involved along with some friends in, in, in, in bodybuilding forums. It was the era of the forums at the time. Not anymore.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Well, it's 17 years ago. It's 17.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a long time ago. By the same time, back then I was actually a moderator for, for website in Italy and forum. No, not for bodybuilding, for ipods. So that you really.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: So that's how far away we are.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: So you understand I was a moderator as well at the time.
So. And yeah, I mean we somehow got the opportunity via an acquaintance to interview him quickly on the spot while he was training.
So I went there with a buddy of mine and we interviewed him and yeah, the guy was huge. I Mean, he was amazing. And we were following him around and he was not doing any heavy work because I think he was on a vacation for something or to. To attend a wedding or something. Something like that.
And we got to talk also with his wife, who at the time. Wife. I mean, I think now he's married to someone else. I think she was. She had Lebanese background, so she was in from the Mediterranean region, so she could relate and all.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: There are some common roots with greens. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: She helped us a lot in achieving this interview. And then. Yeah, I mean, it happened, and it was really surreal. I mean, that's all I can say.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Surreal.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: Listeners cannot say this, but you should see our guests smile when. When he recounts that it works hard.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Really. It's the equivalent of meeting, let's say, Maradona or Pele or someone like that, you know?
[00:09:37] Speaker A: No, it's exactly like that.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: And. And that's it. Right. That's the only bodybuilding agent you have.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Met, and I've even. I've even asked him if he. If he'd ever drank frappe coffee.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Okay. Actually, did he.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: He had no idea what I was talking about.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Okay, there you go.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: But, you know, I remember that he said that he was still keeping his diet regime because in the Mediterranean region, he said, we eat a lot of carbs.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: I think he had Italy in his mind, not. Not Greece.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Well, I think it's a fair balance.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: There is. Yeah.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: For both of them, actually, which is interesting because. And we're going to talk about science too, of course, but when we talk about bodybuilding, as much as we were saying that that kind of physique is pretty much unattainable from pretty much people who are not professional in the sport. And it presents also some. Some serious limitations to your daily life in terms. In terms of discipline, dietary requirements, also in terms of mobility, because the muscular mass is obviously quite large, so.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: The world is not built. Sorry.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: It's a limiting factor.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: It's a limiting factor.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Even though it's a huge thing, it's still a little bit. It's very weird. Yeah.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah. To most people, that is not a physique that is associated with normal life, but one part that is often overlooked by people who are not into the sport is how important, for example, diet and commitment and daily planning are in making bodybuilding. Because. Okay, there are some genetic factors that determine your success as. As a bodybuilder that goes without saying. For example, I have very long bones and very long muscle fibers, so I cannot have Huge muscle mass. So even when I was competing, I was always competing in a very light category because I cannot grow muscles after 70 kilos.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Basically, people that follow the podcast, they know. But if the first time you're hearing the Dr. Cavallaro's podcast. Yes, he was competing.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: He was competing.
And there are no pictures surviving of that. Luckily. Yeah, my wife has asked me about it. No, she does have some. But, yeah, that's it.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: You should see those pictures, right?
[00:12:01] Speaker A: No, we should not. And luckily that was before the social media era, so that they weren't shared or anything.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: You see also the psychological component, which is extremely strong in this sport. I mean, we think that, you know, we're never good enough. And that's what. That's a driving force for some bodybuilders. But at the same time, it is also a big psychological burden, you know, to.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you see, I think that everything is good in moderation, obviously. So if you take that kind of commitment and dedication to achieve a certain goal, a muscle chiseled in a certain way, the biceps are not showing clearly enough, etc. Or my forearms are not vascular enough, etc. Which are very big problems. We understand that.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: As long as you take it as a motivating factor to improve, that's great.
If it becomes the determining factor in anything you do, then is basically dysmorphia. It's more psychological.
It's more a psychological issue than actually anything positive.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: It is one of the issues that has been maybe enhanced, to make a pun.
Yeah. Because of social media and all these fitness influences.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: That doesn't help.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Which, I mean, on one side this doesn't help, but the other hand, it does help because it has made bodybuilding and fitness and this kind of exercise more accessible to people. Because in the past you used to have with these magazines, right. And you would see this.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: So what's Masculine Fitness?
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Muscular Development and Muscle Magnet and all this.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: I remember Muscular Fitness was specifically published by ifbb.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: So for those who don't know, International Federation of Bodybuilders. So, yes. And I remember when I started the sport, I read relentlessly, because you need some background.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: There was no other also source of information.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: No social media, no YouTube, some online forums.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: But again, that came early 2000s, if you started before that, there was nothing whatsoever. So you had those kind of publications to refer to.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Exactly. So you were seeing only these types of physics and you would see them in contest shape, which means.
So people that don't know, they see these Superhuman bodies. And they're like that for needs of a presentation on stage during a contest day, for the needs of a photography session. Yeah, but you will never see them how these people look like throughout the rest of the year. Which they didn't look like that because.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: They need to beef up. Yeah, yeah, they are bulking.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: I mean, I mean, health wise, you know, you cannot have 5% body fat for a long time and be dry at the same time.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: So, but we will never see those, the physics like that. And then you will not, you will not see something in between. You see people around you and then you see those people and there's nothing in between. So it's either that or a normal person and, or, you know, you see some athletes maybe, but in different sports. But there was no intermediate, you know, with social media, you see. I mean, the good thing that fitness influencing has done, I think, is that there's several intermediate types of physics that you see all the time, which also has removed partly the stigma of the sport. And again, you know, it's really a continuum, right, of physics. So it's possible that you can work, you know, towards a specific body goal. And I'm not talking about the appearance wise. There's another component which has to do with the science and the pseudoscience behind bodybuilding because again, the only source of information at the time were bodybuilders themselves.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: And this is a very interesting case of pseudoscience. I mean, there's this term which is called bro science, which is people, you know, just explaining. You have, yeah, you have people, you know, you have all these athletes. I mean, it's like, for example, you know, the best coaches in football.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah, okay.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: They were not always the best footballers, the best players. Obviously they were good, they were good enough. But you know, there are other skills that needed to, to grow. So what I meant to say is that you have all these bodybuilders and then they would give information to the public. And you know, most of these people have amazing genetics, Their, their, their work ethic is amazing.
Diet, nutrition, you know, training is spot on and then they just know how to achieve a result. But often they don't understand why, which is very interesting. And you know, there were not many fully controlled scientific studies in the past because no one would fund. Yeah, no one would fund those things. Now there is more interest because again, there's more people involved in these intermediate stages of how physique looks like. And there's been research emerging and I think established research of the importance of Weight training as people grow older because.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: We lose muscular mass and metabolism slows down.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: It's also a matter of quality of life as you, as one gets older. So because of these reasons, there has been more research on that in past few years and maybe even decades. And we know, I would say the.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Last 15, 20 years there is more reliable scientific, actual research before, as you said, was bro, science, pseudo science. But I think because again it is something you did mention now the interest towards the sport shifted because we had what is the so called golden age of bodybuilding, late 1980s, early 1990s, right before Ronnie Coleman became synonymous with Mr. Olympia.
And you remember Masters of the Universe, the cartoon. He man and the Masters of the Universe.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: And remember that. I don't know if you know this, but he man was model on Tom Platz.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: The legs, right, the legs, exactly.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: He had legendary legs. And that was the model for he Man. And you could say it because, you know, he was huge, impressive legs with a teacup, blonde haircuts. And that was actually Tom Platts.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: And we're talking about mid-1980s, late 1980s and that was the moment that you could see that the bodybuilding started spreading into popular culture and slowly the perception shifted from people who wanted to look good, who wanted to look huge, to people who wanted to be healthy.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Which is safe to say the direction that the sport is going more and more.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, I mean also competition wise, as you mentioned before, there's all these new categories, this intermediate category, classic bodybuilding, wellness and bikini and these kinds of things in women where you, you see more attainable physiques, at least I'm not saying they're not chemically enhanced.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: That's a huge problem.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: We definitely know cases where this is true and there are also cases where this is not true. But still visually it's a more attainable thing, you know. One of my favorite bodybuilders of all time was Frank Zane.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: That is everyone's favorite bodybuilders. Come on. So who was a math teacher?
[00:18:54] Speaker B: He was exactly. Science teacher. Exactly.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Math and science, yeah.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: I've seen this picture of him teaching in a classroom and he like, he's built and he's amazing and he was.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: I mean, you know, he still looks amazing.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: And they called him the Chemist, you know.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Yes, he had a nickname.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: The Chemist.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: The Chemist, yes.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: He still looks amazing. I also met him at that, you.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Know that so far I really liked you as a person, as a colleague.
Now I'm starting being a little annoyed, you know, the closest I have ever been to meet this kind of people is the first gym I train in was visited once by Tom Platz. Oh, that's it.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: So, okay.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: And it was, you know, in this very small town where my parents have a summer house in Italy. In Italy? Yes, in Cesinatico.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: It's north of Rimini, So it's like 20 minutes from Rimini. My parents have a summer house there. And the first time ever I stepped in in a gym was in this place. And it was very old school gym, just a few machines, lots of free weights. And the machines were from Technogym that now is a giant for fitness. Back then it was starting building up the empire that they have now. And it was so visually unappealing because now, you know, everything you see, it's as sleek is there are design pieces. Back then, the machines that were in this gym were yellow and black.
So very unappealing for today's design standards. And the floor was basically concrete with some from shock absorbing panels were next to the machines. And that was it. That's all you got?
[00:20:31] Speaker B: That's all you needed, right?
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yes. And you know, to the point that even now if I don't work out home, if I go outside, if I see a perfectly clean design gym, I don't.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not exactly.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: It lost the.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: At least it's for a different generation. I don't know, it's. It's not for it for us.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: I believe it's for different needs because yeah, again, the needs and the psychology behind the sport is different now. And I understand that it's more about both esthetics and health. So you need to take that into consideration because obviously a gym needs to bring people in, of course, so it needs to be palatable and attractive.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: It works for several. It works. So why not?
[00:21:12] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, but you know, I believe it's more like a halo effect that it expands from there and then those who are really passionate, they go different direction. If you see Arnold training, the Rock training, you can see that they go very hardcore on very minimal equipment, very specifically designed. I mean, I love seeing Dwayne Johnson training with chains because it tells you that you can do so much with something so basic, but it's actually brutal training. But again, it's a mindset thing.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Exactly. I mean, look, as long as there are choices for people and to get them, you know, in the gyms or, you know, to do any kind of training, that's I think the most positive outcome from all this. Again, for Health reasons, first of all. And then of course the appearance thing, for me, it's a health thing as well. Yeah, of course it cannot. It can go to the other side. No, no doubt. But psychological health, I mean, it's.
Everyone wants to look nice. I mean, yeah, obviously, but we do have different, let's say different aesthetics of.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Yes, okay.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: What we think is nice. Looks nice or what? What. Not so. But it's a bit. It's a part of it, you see.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: I would say that, but again, I'm talking from the perspective of a 46 year old men, which is very different to. From what I have.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: That's why, that's why I said health first. Like, like inner health first. Because. Because that's the priority now.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember I started going to the gym when I was 21. 21, 22. So literally half a life ago. And obviously I was in my early 20s. I wanted to look good. Also I was very chubby, so I wanted to lose weight and I wanted to look good. And I also had to buy an entire wardrobe after one year of training because I lost like 30 kilos. So. Ye. It was crazy. And I don't care about that anymore. I care more about being healthy, about. Well, being shape. Yes, to a certain degree. But being shape and being healthy not.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Exactly shifted to more being healthy. Right.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Then, yes, but again, I'm also 46 years old. So if I had the same goals I had 25 years ago, I would be worried because it means that my mindset hasn't changed, I haven't grown, I haven't mature, so to say. And I believe that I have reached an age where keeping my health in check is way more important than looking good per se. Then if you look good, yes. Okay, great. It's not the primary factor that drives me into doing certain activities. I don't eat the same way I used to age 25, 20 years ago.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I know, I understand. Because you know, I'm. I'm older than you, so I can.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: You are.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: I can. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: I thought we were the same age.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: No, thank you. But I completely understand what you're saying and yeah, it's your body, your. Your health, it's. Is more. Becomes more sensitive to different things or in any case, you know, you don't have enough room for first, you don't.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Have the time anymore.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: And of course you don't have.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Honestly, you don't have the time.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: How is that possible? That's. I'm trying to figure that out. How, How Come I had. I mean, okay, I'm doing different things.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: But because you know why?
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Why?
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Because you have a job, you have a family.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: You have stuff to do on a d.
And not that it's not possible to do a sport, to be engaged in a sport, even at a professional level with a family. Of course it's possible, but it depends what your priorities are.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: And when we said now that the mindset changed over the years. When I was in my early 20s, I don't. I didn't have a wife.
Yes, okay, I was working, but not the way I work now. My horizons, my expectations, my goals, professionally and personally were very different.
Now my first thought, anytime I do something for my health is okay, if something bad happens to me, my wife is gonna be alone. My family, well, we don't have kids, we have cats. But you see what I'm saying, when you are 20 something, you don't have to think of that. I'm curious because. Okay, we have established you are very passionate about weightlifting. I can relate easily. But you're so.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: And I told you only 10% of the story. But.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Yeah, again, and I told you that I have always like you. Let's not get more annoying than 90%.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: More facts that will make you hate me more.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: So. No, no, you're impossible to hate. But the thing is, okay, you met Ronnie Coleman and that's it. Right. You didn't meet any other bodybuilding legends.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Right? I did, I did.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: No, you didn't.
Okay, whom did you meet besides Ronnie? Because Ronnie and I are on first name basis.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Who did you. Who did I meet or who they talked with and interviewed as well? Well, because Ronnie was not the only one that I interviewed.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Okay, Both just give me names.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Okay. I also interviewed Jay Cutler when he was here. Again, he was. Jay Cutler is like. Okay, so I make a parallel like Ronaldo and Messi. Okay, so it's like both of them. Yeah. So Jay Cutler.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: We are not deciding who is Ronaldo and who is messing this comparison. But yeah, because otherwise we are never getting out of this room.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: So. Okay.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: So Jay Cutler, I think four time Mr. Olympia, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Four. I think so.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Ronnie is eight.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Ronnie is eight. Yeah. And they were the big.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Arnold is seven.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Arnold, seven. Yeah. They were rivals for several years.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Usually Ronnie was first, Jay was second. Or I mean, at the end it.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Switched, but there was the huge back controversy. If you have a back like Jay, you cannot lose to Ronnie because Ronnie was less defined on his back muscles.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. Marcus Rule, who's another beast, really.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: And he's very fun, apparently, to be around Marcus Rule. So, I mean, him and Dorian Yates that have this huge appearance and instead. No, they're very nice.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: But I met Marcus Rule. He had retired, so he was not as huge. I mean, Rule was even more huge than Coleman. Right? Yeah, but I think so. Yeah. When I met him, he had slimmed down a little bit and he told me that now he has a family and a kid, so he has other priorities and I understand.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: There you go. Yes, so do you, because you have me and him.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the same. Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: You're basically the same person.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, the same person.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Exactly. I make this joke anytime someone mentions Henry Cavill. So we're basically the same guy. Exactly. If you don't see it, you're just blind and biased. Anytime my wife or friends mention a very attractive person, I say we are basically the same person. Only I have better hair. I can't say that about Henry Cavill. Henry Cavill is actually better hair than me. So I know he's one of our followers. So. Hi, Henry. And yes, we love you. Okay.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I've also met and talked briefly with Phil Heath to make you more jealous.
A legend that's not. That's no longer alive. Sergio Oliva.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Damn.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: He was pretty old at the time. Again, in the Arnold Sports Festival. I have his autograph somewhere.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Nice. Franco Colombo.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: No, no, no, I didn't meet Arnold, actually. I didn't see him. I mean, well, I heard he. He had visited the exhibition at the time, but I never saw him.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: But I saw these other people.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: So just, you know, Arnold follows this part. He's a friend of. So, yeah, yeah, just we let him know that you would be happy to meet him. Thank you, Arnold.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: And there was. There was another person I want to mention as a small tribute. I never met her in person, but.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: We had an exchange of emails for several years.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: People don't. Might not know the name. Her name was Doris Barrio. At the time, she was. When we were exchanging emails, she was around 80 years old or something. So she was in the late 70s, something like that.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: All right.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: She was one of the people in 1970, late 70s, who organized one of the first women's bodybuilding contests. That was very. And yeah, she was a pioneer. Yeah. And then she was already 40 something. And she even competed once or twice. But her main contribution was not. Not the competition she organized. So she was an organizer. She was a head Judge in the 1981, Ms. Olympia, one of the first Miss Olympias. And then she was also a president of the women's component until it was absorbed by ifbb. She was a publisher of magazine for bodybuilding. She was a photographer. She took thousands of photos from bodybuilding events, male and female.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: So she follows also the podcast.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: She follows, yeah, she cannot because she passed away. But okay.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: She wish. She wishes, yeah, yeah, she would have followed.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: But the thing is that, you know, it just.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: She was an incredible talent.
[00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the contribution was amazing and you know, it was a completely random thing that we exchanged emails and then she sent me so much information, you know, she had so much unseen information. She told me I have all these photos, you know, I have all these letters that I exchange with some people. And this was like history of modern bodybuilding. I'm talking not female, I mean, male. Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: And whole sport.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it was surreal. I mean, you could see she would give me insights as if she knew me for decades.
And it was just stories about all these people that. To make again a parallel, for example, like saying stories about Pele and Maradona and how they quarreled with the president of FIFA at the time. And you're like, how no one knows about these things.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah, because they don't get to the general audience, to the general public. And honestly, something I have observed in the gym, how, I mean, for people who are actually there for training, for working out, etc. I have observe how helpful everyone is towards anybody. Doesn't matter whether they're noobs, whether they are pros, everyone will be happy to help you. I think that at a certain level we all remember where we were when we started, when we have no idea what we were doing.
And we don't want anyone to feel excluded. You don't want anyone to feel hopeless. It can happen very easily, honestly.
And that extends to a general mindset. That's really nice outside the gym as well.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's.
Look, this is, let's say old school bodybuilding is about. And this gym camaraderie. Yeah, this is amazing. Do we see that? Yeah, we do see it still. But there are cases where we see also the opposite things with, you know, social media people videotaping others and then posting on social media to make fun of them. But, you know, I mean, I remember.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: One thing and we are, we are about to finish. I remember when, and I'm sure you have seen it from comments in the past, et cetera. One common feature in any gym is that in front of the weight racks, there are always big mirrors.
And most people think, oh yeah, because it's vanity, because they like to see themselves in the mirror to pose. No, actually the mirror is there to make sure you are executing the exercise correctly because it's about posture.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: Allegedly.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Allegedly. Yes.
But again, those who are really there for training, again, common misconception is that the execution of the exercise is way more important than the weight, that the weight you're lifting, lower weight for, an exercise executed perfectly does much better and much more for you than using bigger weights in sloppy way. And mirror helps you doing that. So because you need to, you cannot see all parts of your body while you're doing an exercise, so you can actually see what you're doing.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Okay. I'm glad that we dedicated all the space we had, all the time we had to science.
That was great.
But I'm pretty sure that having a scientific mind helps you also when you lift, you know what you're doing.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, so, okay, just also to wrap up, as I mentioned before, I was very active member in bodybuilding forums back in the mid 2000s and early 2010. And you know, you had lots of discussions and arguments maybe there. And one thing that stood out is you would see the pseudoscience. It's well meant. You know, people, you know, they do something that it works for them. Of course, you know, you feel the need to, to tell others, you know, that's what you need to do. Some of the stuff are not scientifically. I mean, the reason is not correct. You have a recipe, it doesn't mean it's optimal. And also the explanation of what's happening is not optimal. Does someone care about that? Maybe not. You know, when you go and get a.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Most people want.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Yeah, most people just want to give me a program so that I improve my health and my physique. I don't care to know what the mitochondria are doing or, you know, but understanding from a scientific point of view allows you to, I think, appreciate first of all what's happening, understand how a very complex system like a human body can be manipulated to some extent. I mean, when you first see.
When I first saw bodybuilders, I was like, how is that possible? I mean, what do they, what are they doing? I mean, there's. Yeah, they're doing something. What is even? Even. Oh, they're using such and such, you know, pharmaceutical thing, even that is. Okay, how, I mean, how does that work? You just take. And it happens. No, it doesn't. I mean, it's a whole. It's a science per se. I mean, it is actually very interesting and ties well with biology, with chemistry, you know, even physics, everything is there. So it's really interesting to study from that point of view. So for me, it's interesting to try to understand it from that point of view. So, yeah, that's one reason why I was attracted to the sport.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: It brings several things.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Not necessarily only doing. I mean, the doing part. Okay, I'm a recreational lifter. But the other things around it, even the social component is very interesting for me. It's everything. There's a whole bunch of interesting stuff about this.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: I agree. Yeah.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: It brings it's unfair components to stigmatize. I think it's unfair.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Of course, you cannot limit it to just one aspect. There are several things to take into consideration. Okay. That was very insightful and fun. Thank you, Yanni.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure talking to you.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Our pleasure. Thank you. And this is the last recording for this year of the podcast. So I would like to thank our guest, Dr. Kirkiness, again for having come here. I would like to thank the staff of the media studio here at ACS Athens and the manager of the studio, Mr. John Papadakis.
And more than anybody else, I would like to thank our producers, Penelope and Shia.
They have been instrumental to making this happen and honestly, they are way better at managing this than I could ever be. So thank you, everyone.
