Episode Transcript
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Welcome again to the LibOwl, the podcast of the Hasib J. Sabbagh Library at ACS Athens.
This is Dr. Crivellaro, we are here with our new guest, Dr. Syropoulos. Dr. Syropoulos holds a Bachelor in English Language and Literature, a Master of Arts in English Literature and Culture, and a Doctorate in Musical Theater that he earned from the School of English of the Aristotle University here in Greece. He has done postdoctoral research and taught drama courses at the Aristotle University at Ghent University in Belgium, at the Goldsmith College at University of London. He has published research in peer reviewed journals in Greece, Belgium and the UK.
He is a College Board Certified AP Capstone Teacher and he has received his training at McBride High School in Long beach in California in 2017.
He has joined ACS in 2016 and currently he teaches IB English Language and Literature. IB English Literature. And he is the Division chair for Language and Literature since last year.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: It's the third year, actually.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Third year, yes. So since three years ago. Welcome, Dr. Syropoulos. [00:01:41] Speaker B: It's so nice to be here.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Thank you. And it's. We were talking just now. It's the first time since 2019. Dr. Ceropoulos and I do something together because he was my mentor when I was first hired here at acs.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Indeed.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: So it's nice working together in the.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Writing studio for one year. Yes. Still one of the most formative and enriching experiences I had in education.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Me too. I think it was very enjoyable.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: It was.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: And very productive.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: I would say it was a nice trio, actually. We were MS Psoma and we are still here in ACS actually. So I think that having started in that environment with you and Dimitra was actually one of the reasons for I decided to stay.
I really enjoy it. It made me feel good about myself, good about my craft and educator as a professional in academia. And it was welcoming and reaching, rewarding personally and professionally. So thank you.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: So you are here. We said since 2016.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: What made you stay? We both have quite some experience in terms of time and different locations.
I know why I stayed.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Why did you?
[00:03:06] Speaker B: I'll tell you the story about the day that I interviewed for the job actually as writing studio coordinator. And I just relocated here.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Moving from Thessaloniki.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I was back for personal reasons from Belgium and I went to Thessaloniki for one year and then I want to relocate here in Athens. I lived here before I went abroad and somebody told me about this position and of course I needed a job here in Athens in order to stay in Athens. So the thing is, the moment I entered the campus, I mean, I felt the energy. And I remember so vividly right now, I remember, telling myself, I want to be here. And then I had this amazing interview, which was not actual interview. It was a one hour discussion with Steve Medeiros, Kathy Jason Neves and Marianne Gustav. And I remember the vibe was so great. Everything felt so creative, everything in the universe was in perfect harmony and I still remember the sensations from this day. The things that we exchanged, the arguments that we had with Steve Medeiros, it was so funny. And I remember thinking, I have to be here. I want to be here not just because I want to live in Athens again, but because I want to teach at ACS Athens.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: But what stood out to you?
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Listen, what I felt, the vibe that day, I was able to analyze when I started working here. First of all, it was, as you mentioned, the collaboration with my colleagues. Many of these colleagues are my friends, right now, I really feel ACS Athens as my family. And then it was the relationship with the students, because I believe we have a very, very special relationship with the students here. So everything is very real, everything is very creative. We really invested in our students and we really invested in relationships right here in ACS Athens. So I think it is this environment that makes everything so important. While at the same time, all the opportunities for professional development. You mentioned them in my bio. The first year, after one year, I went to the States, California, to receive my certification as an AP capstone teacher. That was great and so many other opportunities like this that came up. And I believe somehow, although I didn't have experience in secondary education before ACS Athens, I always believed that I'm gonna realize my full potential or say my destiny in academia. Life works in mysterious ways. I really felt that this is the place that helped me realize my full potential. I'm not the same person as I was 90 years ago or the same professional.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: That's, that's beautiful to say actually. It's interesting that you mentioned opportunities for professional development. We have taught in other realities, in different countries. I had a few years where I didn't work in education, so I work in other venues.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Me too actually.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: In which field?
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Well, show business.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Show business?
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I was working in a Greek company that actually was organizing live events, I mean, for various artists from the pop music industry, and also was representing them because they wanted, you know, a more thorough, let's say, representation in the media. So my
job was between the artists and radio stations, to promote their songs on the radio. So I'm responsible for many, you know, big hits here in Greece.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: I can see you doing that.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Actually received heavy airplay. Yeah.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: Nice. I had no idea. It's not as shocking as when we announced that I used to be competing in bodybuilding.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Is that true or it's just an urban legend?
[00:06:58] Speaker A: No, no, no, it's true. It's true. Luckily, you know, I'm a Gen X. There are no pictures that witness this.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: My past to document.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Exactly. Well, there are a few, but they are safely guarded, but interesting. I'm going back to the professional development opportunities. It's interesting you mentioned because I have seen again, it's quite rare and not many places in education, in academia as well as in other fields care so much about nurturing professionalism and even personal talents.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: That employees and students alike can. You mentioned that you are allowed to be employed here while also earning your certification as a capstone teacher in California, which is quite an endeavor.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: And then I want to watch the Aerotra training for the standards. It's actually one of the most helpful professional developments I ever had because this is what helped me to become the division chair that I am today. Because without a firm grasp of the standards and the logic behind the standards, it's impossible to do your job right.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: So yeah, makes sense. I was two weeks ago at a symposium in Istanbul where I was invited to speak about how AI can be employed in educational environments to detect Fake News and the school actually sponsor me to stay there for one week, had full coverage for traveling, attending the conference, speak at a conference.
And one week, one full week out of your position is actually quite, some time. I remember I worked in companies before that gave me two days off for getting married. So I was getting married, I was living in southern France back then, so I had to travel nearly 15 hours to go back to my hometown to get married and in total they gave me 48 hours.
That tells you the difference in approach. Exactly.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: I mean, even now, I mean this year with Mr. Nopoul because I had the chance to present our action research, actually we developed a whole, you know, educational model about combining ancient Greek, you know, tragedy and philosophy and everything with AI. And we had the opportunity to present in the World alliance for US Education Summit and then go to the University of Athens in order to teach one of the classes there, which is amazing. And again, it was taken from the time I'm here. That means that the school is invested in the development of personnel because you can bring back all these elements here.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: You know, for a few years now, I've been part of the people who welcome new hires for the first few days, we show them around Athens, we show them around the school, and one of the things that I keep repeating to everybody, new hires, new colleagues, etc. It's always that I have nearly more than 20 years of experience in teaching and academia, and this is probably the healthiest environment I have worked in so far.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: I support that full.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Yes, you agree on that?
[00:10:11] Speaker B: I agree on that.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: It's some common ground there. I don't know. There is a certain quality because we know that academia can be very challenging. It can be exhausting mentally, sometimes even physically.
Here there's a lot to work, obviously, there's a lot of engagement, there's a lot of commitment. But I always felt that, yes, okay, we are doing a lot, a lot is expected of us, but there is a reasoning that makes it worth it.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Yeah. To go back to the story when it all began, I felt all these things when I first entered the campus. It was so obvious, I couldn't rationalize it, explain it, but I felt it. And then as I worked here, I was able to understand why, what was the thing, the things, that make special ACS Athens, because I believe it's a very, special place.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Nice. I remember that here I actually noticed the library. That's quite a nice library, actually. And I would have never thought that one day I would actually be the one who manages the library. So it's funny how things end up talking about books. We are both literature teachers. We have both solid background in literature, which I often feel is one of the most misunderstood and least considered subjects. Generally speaking, I agree, you can say, let's say in an academic environment there is no comparison, for example, for grants for literature or humanities, and for example, chemistry or medicine or physics. Now AI, yeah, you get funding now for research in literature and humanities, if you somehow connect it with the AI. But again, it's the AI that drives the attention. Yes, exactly. So not literature per se. So again, quite misunderstood, quite under considered. Why do you think that is? Because I decided I want to be a teacher. I wanted to be a professor when I was already in middle school and I was 13 when I decided I want to study Ancient Greek, I want to study Latin, I want to study philology, and I want to pursue this as a career. And it has been making me happy to do so. Very happy with the choice.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Me too.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: But I am 46 in May, so that means that 4 for over 30 years, almost anytime I talk about my job, what I wanted to do when I was younger, what I do now, I always
feel like I have to justify and explain why this is important, why we need to study this. Because it's obvious. If you're a doctor, a medical doctor, or an engineer or a lawyer, everyone understands why we need those.
It's not the same for literature, for humanities, generally speaking, but let's say literature, do you feel the same, has it happened as something similar to you?
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: And I believe asking the reason about what he implied, it's the direct practical applications. I mean, we cannot understand what is a direct practical application. As it is, you are a medical doctor, for example, you work on AI or a computer programmer, so on and so forth. And that's a pity, because I believe now with AI, things are changing and many things that we can do, people can using technology, for example. All these things are going to be taken for granted in the future. I mean, yeah, so many things are going to be done by AI technology. So the thing is, what is left for us, especially as educators and our students, because what's going to differentiate talent in the future when you have a technology that can do so many things for you? Is this the end of originality?
I have a theory, and it's not accidental. I mean, I know the IB because I've been an IB teacher for so many years now, focusing a lot on conceptual understanding. Which means conceptual understanding has to do with synthesizing, being able to recognize similar patterns, you know, in biology, chemistry, in literature and psychology. And this conceptual understanding enables you to come up with new ideas, with new concepts, because you're able to have this panoramic view and recognize similar things going on in so many different fields. So all of a sudden you may come up with a brilliant idea. I believe what humanities and literature are able to offer right now is this kind of conceptual understanding. Because when you teach literature, you don't just teach the language, you don't just teach the context, you don't just teach the content. Actually what you teach is how one person can come up with this solid architecture where everything somehow coheres and everything is subjected to some concepts that bring together so many elements. It's a really high level kind of thinking and I believe with all these tools that we're going to have right now, okay, our disposal in the future, being able to synthesize this kind of level using this higher order thinking, it's going to be so important for our students and for future professionals in order to come up with the ideas, with the concepts that are going to revolutionize industries.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: You see, that's interesting that you mentioned that, because obviously anyone in a highly specialized field is invested with artificial intelligence. Now, in some interactions I had with colleagues from other schools as well, and students, I made a comparison between AI now and electricity. 150, 130 years ago, everyone was losing their minds because electricity is going to change the world completely and we are going to lose so many jobs, and what are the people who turn off the candles in the street of London going to do with the electricity? And now no one cares about that kind of job because other jobs were created, other professions were created, other skills needed to be taught, and now we're doing the same with AI. You could say the same about the Internet. Thirty years ago, when we entered university, the idea that you could write a paper and use the Internet to do research was preposterous. I know if I had told my advisor, even for a normal assignment, not even the final thesis, they would have kicked me out of class.
It was completely unacceptable. Now we take for granted that we cannot do research without the Internet, for example. So things, as you said, change and I think that the question you were asking, what is originality, in the end, is actually the core point. Because I think we are entering a moment in history that it no longer matters what you know per se. Because knowledge is literally at your fingertips 24/7. If you live in a country where they have work, telephone connections and mobile devices connected to a phone line, knowledge is available 24/7 in any possible way. So you don't need to remember certain data per se. What makes the difference is your ability to find that information and to utilize it in a specific way. Yes, it no longer matters what you know per se. If you know a lot, that's great. All the better. Personal growth and personal knowledge, that's awesome but what makes a difference is what you do with that piece of information. The core thing about originality, I always think of, you remember Philip Kindred Dick? For those not familiar with classic science fiction, P.K. dick wrote Do Androids Dream of Electric Ship? That is the base work for the movie Blade Runner. Exactly. But also the simulacra, the three stigmata of Palmer Eldridge, Ubik and the man in the High Castle.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: It's a short story.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Minority Report in a scanner darkly, etc. You know, literature and cinema buffs are always fun to put together.
And the idea is, it touches the very core of our nature, meaning what is original, what makes us Human. And this brings us to the core of literature. One distinctive element that only humans have in all the several species of this green earth of ours is that we create stories, is that we don't communicate only to convey useful information, but we make up stories. We make up narrations that are for entertaining as much as for touching someone's soul. At this moment, at least, artificial intelligence is not capable of original thought. It's great in processing requests and putting together different ideas, but it cannot give an original idea of your own. I think that goes to the very core of what you were saying, that we as humans are still the only example of intelligent life able to make stories.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: It's all about storytelling. I like the fact that you refrain it as, you know, an distinctive element of our spaces, the human species. Storytelling is everywhere. I was thinking about that today, and that's what I teach, actually, when I try to teach my students, when we do literature in class, that storytelling is everywhere in their lives. I mean, as we speak right now, and we create this podcast, there is a story, there is a narrative unfolding that has to do with my intentions, what I want to communicate. What you want to communicate I may have, with some idealized versions of ourselves, okay, as an interlocutor or whatever. So we're always going somewhere. We create a story as we speak. Our students create stories in the social media accounts, and it's a narrative. When I enter a conversation, always, and I say something, there is an implied narrative subtext in the sense, what I want to achieve, how do I want to present myself, what I want to get back. So narrative structures are everywhere.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Okay? I started here at ACS, as you mentioned, at the writing studio with you as the coordinator and my mentor as well. And it was something that I remember we reiterated to the students, especially when they were doing their personal essays, to apply to to colleges. Yes, everyone applying to certain colleges has good grades, they all have extracurricular activities, they all volunteer, they all are good students with excellent GPAs. That's no question there. What makes you stand out is the story you're telling. The essay that you're writing is your introduction to the people that are going to decide which position you're going to have in their university, in their college. And the more striking, the more interesting, the more intriguing your story is, the better chances you have.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: And of course, here comes out your personality, because I really believe in the US the very fact that they don't want a formal academic essay, but actually they want you to tell your story using your own voice. So every word matters, matters not whether it's grammatically correct or not. But is it authentic?
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Does it represent your own personality?
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Is it original?
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Is it original? I mean, is it you?
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Do I want to read what you are saying or not?
[00:22:18] Speaker B: And that's why, I mean, I really like the approach of many colleges that they say, okay, of course we allow the use of AI when you're gonna write and edit your essay. But if you use AI in order to provide the story for you, it's gonna be so obvious it won't achieve anything.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Yes, it will be very boring, very standardized. Also, because it's inherent to the very nature of how large language models are set in generative artificial intelligence. They are programmed to be always positive, to always be very respectful about everything and we know that those are, I mean, respect and kindness are values we need to uphold, but they don't really work in literature. Literature is often uncomfortable as art, generally speaking, is uncomfortable. It can be very controversial. I remember an older joke about the Italian Renaissance and Switzerland. That Italy in the 15th and 16th century had powerful families and powerful cities, always murdering each other, squabbling with each other, fighting each other. And they gave the world Michelangelo, Leonardo, the greatest geniuses that humankind had known for quite some centuries. Switzerland had 500 years of peace and they gave us the cuckoo watch and cheese.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: You see, I didn't see that coming.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Okay, and remember, Heraclitus polymas is the father of all things. Right. That conflict is the father of all things, and literature is actually very complicated. Yeah, it's confrontational. Exactly, and so if you are looking for originality and something striking generated by artificial intelligence at this moment, you won't find it.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: And you see, I mean, you mentioned the college essay and why it's so challenging, why it's so difficult is the kind of conceptual understanding that I'm telling you. Because you have to find one concept that's going to synthesize so many different elements of a personality. Your personal biography, you have so many choices, you have to stand outside of your life, see all the events that happen to you, who you think you are and what you're doing and where you're going, and somehow find the right concept that's going to anchor everything and present them in the most efficient way and effective way in 650 words. That's crazy.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Another memory I have, we were working on a college essay and we have seen thousands. If we put everything together, it's going to be thousands. A common approach of People writing anything is over explaining. They are careful with what they are saying. But people who write and they are not experienced or used to write or train to write, they tend to over explain because they don't want to be misunderstood and yeah, it doesn't really matter because if you find this story that tells who you are, being misunderstood is not what you need to concern yourself with. What you need to concern yourself with is, is it what I'm writing interesting or not? I remember that there was a famous Italian archaeologist, I'm not going to say the name because it's completely unknown to non-Italian speakers. And he used to instruct his mentees when they were doing research with him, saying readers are in a rush, so you need to make it interesting. You need to make it striking. If I read, I don't care how well crafted the whole argument is, as long as it's interesting. It needs to be gripping and it needs to hold the reader to what you're saying. Otherwise in 20 seconds we have a very short attention span, so in 20 seconds, if you're not hooked, okay. I'll let it go, it's not going to work and that's, I think, one of the beauties of literature since we are not writing it for immediately purposeful goals.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: It's not a text, it's not that.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: I mean, it's not a textbook, it's not an instructional handbook. You're not writing how to use a printer or a washing machine and defining characteristic of what makes us human is this need we have to share and listen to stories. And that is something that has been the same for the past probably 10-20,000 years. It hasn't changed, it's one constant of human experience.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: I think it can't, because I was thinking about that today.
And it's all in the structure of language because if you see a sentence structure, it moves somewhere there is a telos, teleological orientation, there is a period, there is a comma, have to stop, we have to end. So this thing, I mean of completion that you begin something and you end it, and in the process you communicate this information in some rational order. It's part of our own thinking of our brain, of our language. It is language. Language is everything. We don't exist outside of our language.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: I remember that I was having a class with some middle schoolers some weeks ago and I told them that language is a matter of sharing information and has been one of the most groundbreaking events in the history of humankind because the complexity that goes into linguistic skills. It is unparalleled in the scope of brain activity.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: What the students, especially when you teach authors like Joseph Conrad or Virginia Wolf, actually try to stretch the very limits of language. To communicate things traumatic or whatever is very difficult to communicate in language. So we have to stretch it, go beyond the limits of language, actually. Or James Joyce.
And do you know, I mean, I had a discussion with Karabelas today and we're always discussing quantum mechanics and stuff like this. I'm obsessed with scientific stuff right now.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: As anybody else at a certain point of the day. Yes.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: And we're in the same office and we're discussing, I mean, the universe. And I told him, do you understand that? What is the universe? It's a construct, a linguistic construct. It's a word, it's a concept. I mean, we're discussing about reality and objective reality. And we understand that reality is constructed by us. The very word reality has no meaning at all. It's a meaning that we created. If you grasp this thing, I mean, that everything is a construct. I don't know.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Well, I had a similar conversation few days ago with my wife, actually. [00:29:47] Speaker B: Over dinner.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: No, actually was over breakfast and it's amazing because we are 40 minutes into recording. I hadn't mentioned my wife yet, so it might be a record this time. And we were reflecting on the fact that in human experience almost everything is a cultural and/or social construction, and language goes in that direction.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: I used to do that one. I was teaching in the UK, theory of knowledge and IB because we had to teach a language. And this is something that can never go out of our own experience and reflect on it because we can perfectly understand that something is a social construct. Okay, we're discussing about race, about gender, about nationality. We understand that these are cultural constructs. But to go outside of the very notion of cultural construct and gender and ethnicity or whatever, and see the very words that we use are constructs that create a reality. So I was discussing a move, and said, okay, what is the galaxy? What is the universe?
[00:30:52] Speaker A: It's a concept. It's a constant generation.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe what exists out there? Even the word exists.
What is the meaning of it? So what is it? Scientific understanding of who have. Of our own existence. If our own existence is defined by us.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Boy. Yes, that. Well, I remember Plato already started. [00:31:13] Speaker B: We go back.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: We go back to. To that time.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Exactly. One of the first big questions.
That's what we do with Ms Ktorides, so important because we believe now, in the age of AI and when we're crossing this very important threshold. That's why you have to go back to ancient Greek philosophy and ancient Greek tragedy, because all the big questions that have to do with existence. Okay. All the big metaphysical questions, as we-
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Started back then.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Started back then. Maybe with AI we have to go beyond them because one of the biggest divisions that construct our realities, subject and object. I'm the subject, this is the object. Now what happens with AI if we eventually merge with it?
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Well, that has been actually some speculation. I remember that one of the most interesting books by Dan Brown was which one? Origin.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Origin. Yes.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: And it has that very question at its core that I don't want to spoil the book. Have you read it?
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so you know what I'm talking about.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: We loved and bright.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: We do.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Despite the fact it's a bit repetitive, but still.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: And academically, let's say bending the inaccurate veracity. [00:32:29] Speaker B: But it's not a research paper. Okay.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: So I agree, it's for entertaining and he's a great narrator. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: I don't think he's gonna be remembered as one of the greatest classics of the American literature, but you can't deny he's a great narrator. He's a great storyteller. And remember what Philip Pullman once said that after shelter, nourishment and companionship, storytelling is what we need the most. So a good story matters.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: And I want to say something not to go back to conceptual understanding. No, no, he's a great conceptualist.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: How he leveraged his academic background to create this astonishing thrillers I would never expect. I mean to be so gripping. Something that has to do with science. You keep religion.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: And history of Science. And history of religion and transform it into a gripping thriller. That's a concept that made him a millionaire.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: It speaks volumes about the power of.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: Language understanding because language is an abstraction and conceptual understanding is an abstraction of an abstraction. So yeah, you think of this higher level. So you come up with a great business idea. Guess what? You become Dan Brown.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Exactly. It's again, at the core is you get an idea, you get the best way to make it interesting. You literally sell millions.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Let's see, can you match that subject? I'm talking to you.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: We are not there yet. Or you know, the other possible alternative is that in a few decades we end up being human batteries for self sustaining machines.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Something like the Matrix.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: There you go. That's my man again. That idea already is diagnostic. The first gnostic thinkers, we are going back to the first century, so we are going that direction. Okay.
We are closing the episode with Dan Brown, P.K. dick and Gnostic philosophy.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: We also mentioned James Joyce, Virginia Woolf and Joseph Conrad.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Philip Pullman, Plato. We could go on and on. Margaret Atwood, the Matrix brothers. Can we finish this on the reflection on that? And then we need to say goodbye. I
suppose you watch all the four Matrix movies. Okay, yeah. Can we agree that it would be enough? The first one and that's it. There you go. Okay, cool.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: That's a general.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: The first one is a masterpiece.
[00:34:56] Speaker A: Yes, I agree. After that, I'm provided that something like that was very hard to even match. I wouldn't say to surpass.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: And again, conceptual understanding.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Could you turn Jean Baudrigar into.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Sci-fi action film? Yes.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: And simulacrum simulations. I think it's.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's right there. I'm sorry, I cannot help. Anytime I see the Matrix and I see Agent Smith, that Hugo Waiver, I can't help thinking that it's the same person who plays Elrond in Lord of the Rings and actually V in V for Vendetta.
It's him actually. Yeah, it's him. It's Hugo Waver. So, yeah and we close on this one. Okay. Dr. Siropoulos, thank you for being here.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Thank you for this amazing narrative that you created.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: That's what happens when you put literature people together.
[00:35:50] Speaker A: It's a game of references and internal jokes.
Okay. Thank you again for being here.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: Thank you for having me here.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Our pleasure, and to our listeners, thank you for being with us and we will have you for the next episode of the LibOwl. Thank you very much.
